Re: "Fluent in Japanese"

[rynling]

Another thing I love is when someone is applying for an extremely competative program that involves teaching English in East Asia (JET, for example) and their formal statement of purpose is filthy with grammatical errors. The assumption that people in Asia (not to mention the people reading the application!) are so stupid and ignorant that they won't notice is just so gratifying.

I'm venting about specific people who annoy me, because I'm bitter and petty like that, but I think what I'm actually upset about is the unfortunate fact that linguistic proficiency is not generally regarded as a "skill" in the same way that, say, mathematical proficiency is. It's like, listen. Just because I can catch a ball if someone throws it to me doesn't mean that I'm qualified to teach Physics, you know?

Comments

[snake_socks]

So weird - isn't there a standardized Japanese language certification, kind of like TOEFL, or did I make that up?

Also, I'd say there's a few things stacked on top of each other here. In my experience (growing up in a non-anglo country, where English is taught in school with equal weight to math) being skilled in foreign languages is certainly valued, even if it might be a bit more associated with "talent" than "intelligence" (which isn't sexist at all, nooo). But even then, your last sentence applies *hard* to the assumption that being eloquent in your own, or fluent in another lanuguage, means also understanding grammar and linguistics.

Which. *whale noise*

[rynling]

Four things:

- You're right, the JLPT (Japanese Language Proficiency Test) is the general standard measurement of linguistic competence, especially for Americans applying to work for Japanese companies.

- Speaking of which, Japan is one country in which English proficiency is considered to be roughly on the same level as math skills throughout secondary education, but then... This is just a feeling I've gotten from my own experiences, but I've noticed that there's an assumption that people who go into STEM fields in college will automatically have a working knowledge of English because they're "smart," which can result in trouble. When I think about the tiered education system in many countries in Europe and the Middle East, in which the "smart" kids are steered into the STEM tracks, I can't help but wonder what sort of assumptions have influenced these educational cultures. But you're right, of course; it's probably best not to assume that whatever is going on there applies everywhere.

- Linguistics is really fucking hard.

- I really love all of your reptile icons.

[snake_socks]

(have a thoughtful iguana then :D)

Regarding English in post-secondary education, I'd agree with your impression; many people's practical fluency is mediocre at best, and completely skewed towards technical jargon (the latter part, because my experience with German uni has been that people who thought they wouldn't need English after high school tend to be disabused of that notion pretty quickly because in the merry-go-round of academic employment, the chance that one of your mandatory courses this year happens to only be taught by someone who speaks approximately enough German to order coffee, is about 1 in 5. Education culture in Germany is honestly a whole-ass rant by itself.)

And linguistics is great - I'm almost sad I didn't stick around for a post-grad degree, but my bank account is probably grateful I didn't ^^°

[rynling]

This is really interesting and relevant to me!!!!!!!!!

I apologize for all the exclamation marks, but I keep seeing English-language advertisements for academic positions in Germany, and I've been talking with a few academic friends in the UK about how they're planning to move to Germany. (Or feeling forced to leave the UK for various reasons, including possible medication shortages due to Brexit? I don't really understand the situation, tbh.) The topic that keeps coming up are the many, many postdocs, research fellowships, and teaching positions available at German universities. The salaries aren't competitive with American universities, but they're far above what someone just out of grad school in most other countries in the EU (and Israel+Northern Africa) could expect to make, and I've been wondering what's going on there since I went on the job market myself.

There's been a similar push to hire foreign professors and researchers in East Asia, but I think this trend probably has something to do with American universities setting up branch locations in Asian countries that send a lot of international students to the U.S. - in other words, it's about American capitalism, either taking advantage of it or resisting it. I doubt that's what's going on in Germany, but I really don't know.

I don't know a lot of things, honestly. Academia in the United States is about as insular as you might expect, and it's really depressing sometimes.

In any case, it's interesting to catch a glimpse of what that looks like from the German side, although "the chance that one of your mandatory courses this year happens to only be taught by someone who speaks approximately enough German to order coffee" doesn't sound like a happy, productive, or sustainable situation...

Sorry for going on about this, but I wanted to thank you for your comments. And for the iguana icon as well, because that is a very handsome creature!

[snake_socks]

Ok, let me know if I get too longwinded here, but the thing about entering uni in Germany is, there's like a 98% probability that you've spent a minimum of 4h/wk learning English, for at least 8-9 years at that point. So it's not really that much of a barrier. (sidebar, the whole 'deal with it' attitude is pretty characteristic of German higher education; it's dirt cheap, and that doesn't only come out of docents' pay, but (primarily) also out of the fact that unis are less like boarding schools and more like, well, educational buffets for unsupervised adults? More on that later, maybe)

Also, bit of a historical note, Bachelor degrees were only introduced widely like, 10-15 years ago, before that it was Master-equivalent or nothing, so there's still a fairly strong culture around only going the academic route if you're serious about, well, academia, and since (depending on the field) a good chunk of the good talks/workshops/conferences/summer schools/journals are in English anyways, might as well get used to it. (And if you're really serious and plan to *stay* in academia, shuffling around the rest of Europe is obviously also encouraged especially for grad students and post-docs)

Seriously, never be sorry for giving me an opening to yell about this stuff!

(fwiw, even if it doesn't always sound like it, I'm quite fond of German academia in many ways. Not for me as a career, but still)

[rynling]

By the way, I apologize if I'm being all like, "Well actually, in academia in America..." and you're right here in the same leaky boat. It's just that I don't know you very well yet, so I'm sorry if I've been making incorrect assumptions, and I'm sorry if I'm coming off as rude or condescending. Please be patient with me, and please feel free to correct me. I can be super awkward sometimes, but I mean well.

[snake_socks]

Oh gosh, don't worry! My current relationship to academia is a bit complicated, but the short version is that I've been involved with unis in Germany and the Netherlands, and no firsthand experience outside of that (but obviously academics are gossips and, yano). Same boat about the awkwardness though, so let's power through that together, yes? ^^° (I'll reply to the longer comment with proper nesting)